Candidates Tocci and Bramson Differ
Sharply in Second WVOX Radio Debate
(October 10, 2002) Assemblyman Ron Tocci and New Rochelle
Councilman Noam Bramson again donned headphones at station
WVOX for their second radio debate in the race for the
91st Assembly seat. The moderator was Howard Sturman,
publisher of Hometown Media Group's newspapers, including
the local Sound and Town Report. In this debate,
the questions came both from moderator Sturman and from
the candidates themselves. The reader can scroll through
the entire transcript starting with the opening
statements, or use the table below to find answers
to particular questions.
OPENING STATEMENT
NOAM BRAMSON: For the last 10 years I have worked closely
with Congresswoman Nita Lowey on important priorities
such as biomedical research and school modernization,
investments in Long Island Sound, international family
planning. I’ve learned a great deal from her about
how to address the issues and priorities that are important
to the people of the Sound Shore. And for the last 7
years I have had the privilege of serving on the New
Rochelle City Council, working on economic development,
environment improvement, partnerships with our schools
to improve after school and summer education. I’ve
always believed that we’ve have an obligation
to accept challenges larger than our own self interests,
serve the communities that we care about, that’s
the spirit with which I am approaching this race and
I hope to make a difference on issues like education,
health care, environmental protection....
OPENING STATEMENT
RON TOCCI: This race comes at a critical time and is
of great significance to our communities. For the last
18 years I have used my seniority and experience in
Albany to pass legislation to secure funding for this
district. Just last session under the most difficult
financial circumstances in over a decade I was successful
in obtaining a record amount of state aid for our schools
and I supported many of the local projects, that really
mean something to the quality of life in this area,
including securing a half-million dollars to save a
firehouse and 15 fireman, which meant a lot to the public
safety in this community. I’ve always maintained
high standards and I’ve tried to be true to my
word. I believe that my career includes service in the
military, labor movement, the county legislature, and
the assembly. And to a large extent I think that my
record has been distorted. I am confident that the falsehoods
will not stand against my true record and I am looking
forward to revealing them during the campaign. This
is an opportunity to remind the voters of my accomplishments,
the legislation, the funding and the changes that I’ve
championed that have benefited our schools and neighborhoods
and communities. In these troubled times I think that
leadership, experience and an independent voice for
our communities are as important as ever.
HOWARD STURMAN: I will ask each of you a question,
“County executive Andy Spano has presided over
the biggest tax increase since 1968 and has blamed state
mandates on the fiscal crisis that the county finds
itself in. Do you agree? If not, whose fault is it and
how could you help as an assemblyperson?”
RON TOCCI: Well, first of all the county executive
is proposing to raise our local property taxes 37%,
which I think is absolutely ludicrous. He can blame
all he wants the state, but the bottom line is that
again, they have created their own problem through a
lot of bad decisions that the county has embarked on.
I disagree, I don’t think the solution should
be a property tax increase, I don’t think the
solution should be a sales tax increase, imposed in
communities that can ill-afford to have more people
driven out of the community instead of trying to entice
people to come in and shop. There’s a lot we can
do on a state level if we can all work together. There
are ways to enhance revenues and there are certainly
ways to streamline government. I would suggest that
instead of pointing the finger and blaming and putting
out all sorts or erroneous information and actually
false types of scare tactics. One particular brochure
talked about “the state is raising your property
taxes.” That is a bald face lie. We don’t
raise property taxes. If anything he could have said,
“causing us to raise” but that didn’t
happen. I’ve suggested several ways to enhance
revenues at a state level and we all know we are in
a downturn in the economy. I think we are all going
to have to do a better job of managing on a local level.
The county executive has squandered away the opportunities
to invest that money that was agreed upon by the cigarette
companies when they had the settlement and I think that
they wasted a golden opportunity to utilize that money
to the benefit of the tax payers.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, it’s an important question
Howard. There is no question at all that a large share
of the county’s budget problems, do result from
state mandates, particularly with respect to Medicaid.
It’s a fact that New York funds a smaller share
of Medicaid costs than most states around the country
and that impacts localities, such as Westchester County.
I think our job as state representatives is to work
as partners and advocates for the local officials and
the local communities that we represent. So, I would
look forward to having a productive and cooperative
relationship with the County Executive, with the County
Legislature, to solve the challenge that confronts the
people and the communities that we represent together.
And as a general proposition I am inclined to defer
to local decision-making. I do think it is county officials
and county leaders who are in the best position to set
a balance between revenues and expenditures, to make
judgments about what measure is most appropriate for
closing a county budget gap. And, I would employ a high
level of trust in my relationship with them. Now, it
is well and good for the Assmemblyman to say that he
is not supportive of the plan that the County Executive
has produced. That is his right as a member of the Assembly.
But then he must also be prepared to accept the consequences
of that decision. If the county Executive’s plan
is not approved by the state legislature, then the result
will indeed be a 31.7% tax increase on the county share
of our taxes. That is a crushing burden that I think
we all have a responsibility to avert, because that
is going to come straight from our wallets. And I think
that it is important that when we discuss our positions,
we not do so divorcing them from their real meaning,
their real impact of the people that we represent. That
is the spirit in which I would approach this question.
HOWARD STURMAN: Tocci has 1 minute…
RON TOCCI: This particular issue is nothing new. Back
19 years ago, each individual community had the ability,
by state law, to control their own local property taxes,
with the authorization of the county legislature. At
the particularly time, they couldn’t get that
authority to either increase or change the formula.
They came to the state and lobbied us to actually allow
the imposition of an increased sales tax in certain
communities, regardless of whether or not the people
thought that was in their best interest. I voted against
that. Richard Brodsky voted against that and there were
several others who didn’t think that it was appropriate
or right. We happen to be one of the only counties in
the State of New York that has different tax rates in
different communities. Most of the other counties truly
share the wealth of the county, that doesn’t happen
here and I think that was a mistake that needs to be
fixed.
HOWARD STURMAN: Noam you have 1 minute.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well I will say again that that is an
interesting history lesson, but it has nothing whatsoever
to do with the crisis that we are facing right now.
There is a limited set of options for closing what is
a very large budget gap. And by the way, it doesn’t
only exist at the county level. New York State is facing
a multi-billion dollar deficit, as the Assemblyman well
knows. New York City is facing a substantial deficit
and many other localities are facing a budget deficit.
We have a responsibility to act, in partnership, to
solve the problem, and if we do not, the result will
be an enormous county property tax increase. That’s
something that we have a responsibility to prevent.
HOWARD STURMAN: thank you. 2nd question “Besides
being over-taxed, the next important issue affecting
voters and their families is the quality of education
in this district. How would you as an assemblyman help
local school districts improve education? Remember,
you are not a member of the executive branch and can
only have legislative input.”
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, it’s a very good question.
I happen to believe that education is the number one
priority that confronts this region, that confronts
this state. It is the key to individual opportunity,
it’s the key to the future of our economy, it’s
the key to our quality of life in individual towns and
villages and cities. And how we improve schools and
provide children with the opportunities that they need
to excel is really the fundamental test of public leadership.
There are several things that I think that state needs
to attend to in order to make sure they are as good
as they should. 90% of schools are currently reporting
a need to modernize or expand their facilities in order
to accommodate growing enrollment, make sure children
have access to the latest technology and learning tools.
That’s an area in which the state needs to do
more. There are 100,000 teachers who are expected to
retire or leave the profession during the next 5 years,
which will make it more difficult to reduce class sizes
and provide children with the one-on-one instruction
that they deserve. That too, is an area in which the
state needs to do more. And when we talk about aid formulas,
there are a variety of ways in which we should be looking
to reform them. First of all, there is no cost differential
for regions like Westchester, where costs are relatively
high, as a result we don’t get the level of assistance
that we need. And second, when I speak to school board
members and school superintendents they tell me that
they are frustrated by the lack of flexibility in school
aid. There are walls between different categories of
assistance that make it more difficult to deliver services
in efficient and cost effective fashion.
RON TOCCI: Well obviously, I think almost all people
who have been involved agree that education is the number
one priority, especially in this community. I think
that what we need to do is to realize that improving
schools involves money, and where do we get the money.
Money comes from the local tax payers, it comes from
the state and in most cases our history shows us that
people believe that those communities that can best
afford should be accepting the burden on the local level
and the state would supplement whatever way they can,
to help the communities that can’t or don’t
have a tax base. I suggested over years that there always
be increases in school aid as a priority in the budget
and that we take care of that priority first and we’ve
been able to do that fairly well. Tuition assistance
programs for higher education, I’ve championed
that cause and secured record amount of tuition assistance,
as well as Bundy Aid for the privates. I also created
the tuition assistance program for anyone who wants
to serve and I’ve given assistance to those people
joining our National Guard, with free college tuition.
Also there are programs that I have instituted that
can help increase revenues in New York State, which
we can talk about when I have more time.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, I also want to stress a point about
my personal commitment to this issue. I have involved
myself in the schools on an almost daily basis for a
period of years. I serve as a director for the New Rochelle
fund, which raises money to supplement the programming
in the public schools. I participate in school budget
and school board elections, every year because I feel
that that is so important to the future of our community.
I’ve worked with Nita Lowey to provide magnet
grants and school modernization funding. So I think
I live and breathe this issue and understand the centrality
of it to the future of our communities. And that is
the level of energy and leadership that I would apply
to it in the state assembly. And I think that that is
what is really required here, it’s not simply
saying the words, it’s being prepared to put in
the energy and the time and the effectiveness that is
required to make a difference.
RON TOCCI: I suggested that I had an idea of how we
could enhance the revenues throughout the school district
area. I actually think that we have to reform the formula.
We have been talking about this for 20 years and I put
together a proposal that talks about basically what
the STAR program is attempting to do. Shifting away
from the local tax-payer and taking the burden away
from the tax-payer and having the state pick up the
full share of education, regional cost differences included
in the proposal and talking about people paying basically
through income tax and if you were blessed you would
pay more and if you didn’t have a big income you
wouldn’t pay a lot. And, I believe that if you
are a senior on a fixed income and you couldn’t
afford to, you wouldn’t have to pay anymore. I
think this would be a lot fairer. This is a phase-in,
it’s a detailed proposal that several members
have joined me with…
HOWARD STURMAN: 3rd question, “A number of citizens
of your district would like to decommission Indian Point
energy plant. Do you agree? If so, how would you assure
that the economic impact on the county is mitigated
and a realistic plan for a replacement of the energy
source?”
RON TOCCI: Yes, I do agree that nuclear power plants
at the Indian Point site have proven to be more menacing
and not really what should have been from the beginning.
I suggested that there be a phase-out of that particular
nuclear power plant, a conversion to alternative power
plant, with the understanding that there is a definite
need for more power. 2000 mega watts of power can only
be made up with a modernized plant of alternative fuel.
And I do believe that it should be decommissioned, it
should be cleaned. The spent fuel rods should be shipped
out to a desert facility some place, so it is made safe.
If anybody believes what the county executive suggested
about an evacuation plan being workable, you have to
believe in the tooth fairy. Nobody believes that, nobody
thinks that that should even be a public policy and
I believe that if we start now, that in a period of
5 years or more, which is the life expectancy of that
plant before it has to be rehabilitated, at a cost of
several hundreds of millions of dollars. We would all
be better served if we build a new modern plant on the
same site, of conventional, alternative energy sources.
NOAM BRAMSON: I do agree, I believe that the Indian
Point reactors ought to be decommissioned. Even if the
likelihood of a catastrophic incident at Indian Point
is low, resulting either from a terrorist incident or
an accident of some other kind, the cost of such an
event in human terms, in environmental terms, in economic
terms would be so overwhelming that I think it is not
a risk that our region ought to bear. And that is why
I think that the plant should be shut down in as orderly
a fashion as possible. We do have some disagreement
on how the spent fuel ought to be treated. I think that
transporting material of that radiation level and toxicity
is extremely dangerous. The prospect of trucks moving
through interstate highways, the possibility of accidents
is a dreadful prospect. Most of the experts with whom
I have spoken support dry cask storage of the spent
fuel, on site and that’s an approach that I would
favor. And more broadly, we do need a regional energy
plan for the NY metropolitan area, none exists right
now and it makes in more difficult to make appropriate
judgments about where we move in the future. My preference
would be for conservation and renewable, sustainable
sources of energy generation.
RON TOCCI: Well I think the decommissioning includes
the transfer of the spent fuel rods away from that site.
We’ve had 2 major earthquakes in the last 10 years;
Indian Point is on a fault line. Notwithstanding a terrorist
attack, I would be more concerned about the possibility
of an earthquake, which could be irreparable damage.
So I would believe that it makes good common sense to
take all the spent fuel rods in the Indian Point I vessel,
which has been there for years, and is probable almost
at capacity now, and get it out of there so everyone
feels safe. There are storage depots that the government
has set aside in the Nevada and Arizona deserts, which
I think make sense. I think people would feel a lot
more safe if they understood that we are doing everything
we possible can to create an atmosphere and an environment
that would protect all of us.
HOWARD STURMAN: next phase of debate…questions
submitted by the candidates…..hearing questions
for the first time, from Bramson to Tocci. “On
July 30th of this year, you wrote a letter to Albany
PACs and lobbyists, in which you said, “With past
financial support from many of my friends in the lobbying
community and their clients, I have been able to serve
the residents of Westchester County’s Sound Shore.
At this time, I would be greatly appreciative of a generous
contribution that you and your clients can afford.”
The overwhelming majority of your campaign funding,
78%, has come from lobbyists, corporations and PACs.
By contrast only 14% of your campaign funding comes
from individuals in the Sound Shore area. Why are you
so reliant on special interest money?”
RON TOCCI: Well, let’s dissect this for a minute.
I analyzed most of the contributors list to my opponent
and I find that 85% of the money that he’s received
is from without the district and a substantial amount
of that money is from his own family, which is nothing
wrong, but it’s obviously not coming from everybody
in the district. The special interests that he talks
about, I would say, primarily, those special interests
are from people who represent the services providers
of our communities. I’m sure that they include
their health-care providers, our nursing homes, the
outreach centers for veterans, homeless, educational
institutions, I’m sure that not-for-profits are
in there. Numerous unions who, I think most of these
groups employ their members. These groups have either
PACs or they have professional government liaisons that
help them, and they support people who think I’ve
been fair or supportive of their cause. They are not
bad people, they are people that I work with on a daily
basis and it’s all part of the system and I think
it all works very well. So, why should I not solicit
the people I work with and if my opponent had any objection
to any one of them, or any of them, I’d like to
hear who he suggests is not ethical or not an appropriate
source to solicit.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, I think this is a serious problem
and the crux of it is this. When we have such a cozy,
comfortable, reliant relationship on special interest
groups, that are based largely in Albany, I think that’s
the kind of thing that really erodes trust in government,
really makes people cynical about the degree to which
their representatives are serving their interests, rather
then the interests of outside groups. And when that
trust erodes and when that cynicism is allowed to develop,
it makes it more difficult to address the real challenges
that we are all really elected to tackle, it makes it
more difficult to do the right thing with regard to
education, and more difficult to do the right thing
with regard to health care, more difficult to do the
right thing with regard to the environment. And the
assemblyman mentioned, are there particular groups that
I that I think are objectionable. The answer to that
is absolutely, yes. The assemblyman has taken a grand
total $1,500 from the NRA and voted multiple times against
common-sense gun safety. He’s taken almost $3,000
from tobacco interests, which again I don’t think
reflects, either the health or the welfare of the people
that we are sworn to represent. So those are certainly
things that I would not have accepted and I am disappointed
that he would choose to do so. And I think that it is
curious that after 18 years in the assembly…
HOWARD STURMAN: Time’s up Noam. “Having
voted for the high tax rate in New Rochelle, why have
you not pursued clothing retailers or other high volume
sales tax producing centers that would increase sales
tax revenues. And then instead illogically you have
made your chief priority non sales tax producing entities
like high rise apartment complexes and entertainment
and then worsened the situation by extending to them
property tax abatements?”
NOAM BRAMSON: Well I would dispute the premise of the
question, the answer is of course, we have aggressively
pursued retailers in New Rochelle with some success,
Home Depot, Costco, Linen and Things, the Expo Design
Center, Palazetti Furniture, all of those establishments
have opened in recent years, have been very sales tax
intensive and have been a direct result of the city’s
economic development efforts. The challenges we face
in New Rochelle and which many communities of our kind
face, is that retailers by and large, especially national
retailers do not regard, currently, our central business
district as an appealing area in which to open up a
new store. That’s the obstacle that we ran into
with New Roc. It was originally conceived as a retail
center, the developers were unable to attain leases
from major retailers and that is when it was recast
as an entertainment center. So we have to ask ourselves
the question, how will we make downtown New Rochelle
and New Rochelle generally, more appealing to retailers
so in the future they will decide to locate here. That
was the thrust of the Avalon project. If you want a
healthy business environment, you have to introduce
a population that has disposable income, that can create
a pedestrian friendly, 24-hour neighborhood that will
encourage an entrepreneur to fill a vacant space or
develop a new establishment. So if you look at this
from a long-term planning perspective, the strategy
that the City of New Rochelle has used has been a successful
one.
RON TOCCI: I think the defining different between my
opponent and I is that he has bought hook-line-and-sinker
into what I believe New Rochelle has totally failed
to do and that is to present a real cohesive master
plan. I totally disagree, I don’t believe that
you can live within your own boundaries and survive
economically. I think you have to have an attractive
shopping district that will woo people from without
the border to come in and shop, to create the kind of
traffic and the kind revenue from sales tax that you
need. I hear from people all the time that you can buy
plenty of beepers on Main St., but you can’t buy
a pair of shorts. Women tell me that they can’t
buy a pair of stockings. I think that if Mt. Vernon
can attract Target and kind of activities as well as
Coop City, there’s no reason that New Rochelle
couldn’t do the same if they didn’t have
the defeatist attitude that Noam Bramson and the current
administration espouse all the time.
HOWARD STURMAN: for Tocci, “In the aftermath
of the dragging death of James Bird in Texas, the stoning
death of Matthew Sheppard in Wyoming, and a rash of
anti-Semitic vandalisms here in Larchmont and Mamaroneck,
New York State finally adopted a hate crimes law in
2000. The law increases penalties for crimes motivated
by bigotry, racism, or anti-Semitism. You were the only
member of the Westchester delegation to oppose it. In
your meeting with the Journal News editorial board 2
years ago, you characterized the legislation as a law
passed to make legislators feel good about themselves.
And you said that your colleagues voted for it because
they were afraid of the press. Is that still your view?”
RON TOCCI: Well, I’ll say this, I’ve spent
my entire adult life fighting discrimination. I’m
especially concerned, as most people would be, about
crimes motivated by hate or bias and as such, I authored
a comprehensive bill that focuses on education and rehabilitation
and community service, as part of the sentencing for
those who would be found guilty of these types of crimes.
I don’t believe that one’s race, creed,
or sexual orientation is more important than any other
and exclusive discriminatory legislation is not the
way to fight discrimination. It has to be applied to
everybody, equitably for whatever reason and for whatever
prejudice. Prejudice is something that is learned, we
are not born with it and only through education do I
truly believe that we can overcome hate or bias crime.
In the two instances that my opponent suggests, that
were appalling crimes, where the victim was killed,
I would apply capital punishment, they should pay for
it with their life and that would send a message to
a lot of people also. So, I would suggest that if we
are truly anxious to try to do something, it will not
be the kind of legislation that just purports that will
increase or enhance the penalty and every time there
is a different crime committed by hate or bias, we’ll
keep amending the legislation to try to include that
particular bias. There’s nothing in there that
talks about your political position, your philosophical
position, or any other kind of bias that may come because
of you not liking people with long hair, or someone
who might wear an earring, or somebody with a tattoo,
and so on and I can go on and on. And I believe that
this legislation is something that is in need of reform
and that’s why I did the legislation that I just
talked about.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, the Assemblyman may say he has
a lifetime record of fighting against discrimination,
but his record says precisely the reverse, in fact it
is a shameful record. He was the only member of the
Westchester delegation to vote no on New York’s
hate crimes law. He was the only member of the Westchester
delegation to vote no on SONDA. Now what is it that
SONDA does? It says that you can’t be fired from
a job or denied admission to a school, or denied a line
of credit, or denied health care simply because of your
sexual orientation. That’s a matter of basic fairness
and justice. A few years ago the assembly considered
something called “the hospital nondiscrimination
act” which would have made it illegal for hospitals
to discriminate against patients. The vote in the assembly,
Democrats and Republicans combined was 138 to 3 and
Assemblyman Tocci was one of the 3 no votes and I think
that that is a shame and does not reflect the values
of our community.
HOWARD STURMAN: “With your support for the failed
economic policies of the Idoni administration, which
included an increase in the sales tax rate, but a failure
to attract sales tax producing businesses, tax abatements
for major corporations, and non tax producing capital
projects, the city has incurred a debt of nearly 120
million dollars and is facing a 5 million dollar deficit
for next year. Compounding the problem, your campaign
chairman, Andy Spano is now proposing a 37% tax increase
and asking for state relief. In order for the state
to bail out the county and the city, where would you
suggest that the money come from and are you proposing
that the state impose new taxes, or make cuts in services?”
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, I’ll tell you precisely where
the money should come from. Let’s look at the
facts, New Rochelle receives less supplemental state
aid than any comparable community in all of New York
State. If we look at our neighbors for comparative purposes,
on a per capita basis we receive 1/3 of what White Plains
receives and 1/30 of what Yonkers receives. It you look
at it more broadly from a historical perspective, since
the late 1980’s New Rochelle has lost 44% of its
general-purpose aid -that is the worst record in all
of New York. It amounts to 3 million dollars, every
single year it is coming right out of the pockets of
New Rochelle taxpayers. That’s the equivalent
of a 10% property tax increase. So I think that the
record is very clear that our principle representative
in the assembly has not had the ability or the willingness
to fight for this community and see to it that we get
the share of state aid that we need and deserve. And
of course that has a direct impact on our city budget.
Makes it more difficult for us to fund core services
related to public safety, related to parks and recreation,
to public works, investment in capital projects, environmental
investments. All of those things are impacted by the
Assemblyman’s failure to deliver an adequate share
of state aid to this community. So, if I am lucky enough
to be elected, I will work in the spirit of partnership
and cooperation with local officials in an effort to
make sure that we serve the people that we represent
together. And unfortunately that spirit of partnership
has been sorely lacking for the last 18 years and think
that that is clear in the facts that I cited moments
ago.
RON TOCCI: You know it is interesting to listen to
all this “spirit of cooperation” when they
have done nothing but play finger-pointing and blame
game for the last 8 years, trying to shadow all of the
failures of this administration, which my opponent has
championed. Those facts and figures that he cites are
a clear case of total distortion and they are wrong,
they are made up, and I totally disagree with their
characterization of what the state has not none. While
I agree that we should go up together and fight for
more state municipal aid, I championed a group from
New Rochelle, where we had the Ways and Means people
come in where we tried to make the strongest case we
possibly could. If there was better cooperation and
they had worked together with us instead of beaten up
on the leadership of the senate, the assembly, and the
governor, we might have had a better chance of gaining
some aid, but that’s not the case. However, we’ve
made it up in many, many ways. The lack of municipal
aid that he talks about, which is not substantial. New
Rochelle receives about four hundred-something thousand
dollars and Mt. Vernon is not even seven hundred thousand
dollars, White Plains may be 1.2 there-about, so that’s
not going to make the biggest difference about what’s
wrong, but I certainly would fight for whatever supplemental
aid I could get. Aside from that, the STAR program has
come into existence and a lot of other revenue sharing…
HOWARD STURMAN: Time’s up…question to Tocci,
“New Rochelle has lost more general purpose aid
than any other city in New York since 1980. There are
specifics, all cities in New York have seen an increase
of 7%, all cities larger than New Rochelle have seen
an increase of 39%, but New Rochelle’s general
purpose aid is down 44%, which amounts to about 3 million
dollars every year, or the equivalent of a 10% property
tax increase. You have been the principle representation
of New Rochelle throughout this time, what is your explanation
for your steep decline in aid?”
RON TOCCI: Well, as I just suggested, I don’t
buy into those figures at all and I certainly would
be willing to work with anybody to try to gain more
financial assistance for a city that is truly in distress
right now. I checked some figures and found out that
in the late ‘80’s and ‘90’s,
across the board, throughout the State of New York,
there was a shift away from all-purpose general revenue
and there was a decline of 36%, throughout the state
of New York, in all cities. There was a 43% decline
in towns, counties, and villages and 31% decline throughout
the cities, minus NYC. There was a switchover to distressed
city aid and emergency aid, which we were not eligible
for, or at least which we did not apply for at that
time. In the last few years, state municipal aid has
grown and other communities have become eligible and
that is the money that we have been attempting to get.
However there is not enough money in that pot, that
would go to the small cities, those cities which are
under 125,000 would make up the economic difference
that this city needs to balance their budget and now
we really dug ourselves into a large hole.
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, a moment ago the Assemblyman said
that those figures were simply made up, so where do
they come from? They come from the New York State budget
and the New York conference of mayors. And if anyone
doubts them, I would encourage them to contact those
sources directly, look on the web…
RON TOCCI: That’s a good idea…
NOAM BRAMSON: Yes, and they will find that all the
figures that were cited were exactly accurate. And why
is it that we have a problem? It is precisely the argument
that the Assemblyman just made. Instead of going to
his colleagues and the leadership in Albany and saying,
“Look at these figures, it is a scandal, here
is a community that needs more assistance, “ instead
he says, “You know, it’s not that big of
a problem.” And I don’t think that’s
the way to be an effective advocate or representative
for a city in need.
HOWARD STURMAN: Tocci for Bramson, “You claim
to be an environmentalist and yet I have received the
endorsement of the New York League of Conservation Voters.
How do you explain your anti-environment, “yes”
votes for a vehicular bridge to David’s Island
and how do you justify your support for the Ikea project
and your vote for the blight designation which caused
financial hardship to businesses and homeowners, some
coerced into selling their homes and business to Ikea
at below market rate?”
NOAM BRAMSON: Well, first of all, if you look at folks
who are most active in the environmental movement, locally,
you will find that many, if not most, are supporting
me. People like Nancy Seligson who the chair of the
League of Conservation voters and a president of Save
the Sound. People like John Feingold, who led the Westchester
land trust. People like Bill Lawyer who is head of the
Federated Conservationists of Westchester. These are
the folks who have had the opportunity to view my environmental
record, view my opponents environmental record up close
and have determined that this is a subject that I am
much more interested in taking an active leadership
role. Now, with respect to Ikea. When Ikea first approached
the city of New Rochelle, I along with all the other
members of the city council took the steps necessary
in order to commence a full-scale environmental review
of the costs and benefits, economically, environmentally,
in terms of the quality of life in the surrounding area.
I must have spent hundreds of hours in public hearings,
reviewed hundreds if not thousands of pages of documentation
about that project, so that I could make the most informed
judgment possible. And I ultimately concluded, when
the data came in, that the project made no sense, whatsoever,
for the area. That it would have overwhelmed the surrounding
road network with traffic. That it would have interfered
with the city’s planning objectives on North Avenue
and at the waterfront. That the costs, rather than benefits
of the project were too marginal to justify the forced
displacement of homes and businesses. And that is why
I certainly would have opposed Ikea, had it come to
a vote. And the evidence for that it that the overwhelming
majority of local officials in Larchmont and Mamaroneck
who lived and breathed this issue, are now strongly
supporting my candidacy.
RON TOCCI: First, of all, all of the people he mentioned
had input into who should be endorsed by the New York
State League of Conservation Voters. Obviously my 96%
rating that was given to me by that planning group,
suggested that I had a much better environmental record
than my opponent. And while we are on the subject of
Ikea, this is a quote from my opponent, early on in
the process when Ikea was first introduced in New Rochelle,
“I’ve always thought it was an appealing
concept. It’s just a matter of whether the numbers
add up. It’s good news that they are interested.”
I think that clearly demonstrates that there was a bias
opinion on his part, for the project, without really
considering how it would uproot businesses and people’s
home. And certainly, when it was clear that the public
was outraged and that this would have been a environmental
disaster, it was only then that the opposition convinced
Mr. Bramson and the administration that this was not
a good idea for political reasons. But a lot of people
have been hurt and he hasn’t addressedhow the
people get their property back and their money…
HOWARD STURMAN: Time’s up. Extra time. I will
follow up on my questions. “Is Andy Spano and
his administration responsible for this budget deficit.
Yes or no?” Noam?
NOAM BRAMSON: Primarily no.
HOWARD STURMAN: Ok, Ron?
RON TOCCI: Absolutely they are responsible.
HOWARD STURMAN: next…”With regard to the
education here in the district, my question to both
of you was to remember that you are not part of the
executive branch. Is there a particular legislation
that you would like to author or co-author in the assembly
on your first day back, or first day in, that would
improve education?” Ron?
RON TOCCI: I suggested earlier a proposal to shift
away from the local property tax payer and give it to
the state. I’ve had that proposal in now for almost
20 years and I think it makes sense more than ever before.
I would like to see that explored thoroughly. I’ve
talked to educators and leaders around the state that
think it’s a good idea. There are other states
around the country that are trying to do that, Michigan
and Minnesota…..
NOAM BRAMSON: I have to react to that, that is an interesting
example of the Assemblyman’s ineffectiveness.
A shift of this kind from property taxes to income taxes,
involves a wholesale reformation of the way we deliver
services and the way we provide taxation in the state
of New York. In order to make something like that happen,
you have to work with teachers, you have to work with
school board members, you have to work with interest
groups in Albany and around the state, you have to work
with your colleagues. You have to assemble a coalition
that is prepared to expend time and energy and political
capital on an enormous reform. None of those things
have happened. The Assemblyman said it just right, he’s
been talking about it for 20 years. There has been no
movement on it whatsoever. It is little more than statement
that is trotted out every two years in a campaign.
RON TOCCI: That is exactly the defeatist attitude that
I suggest why nothing gets done in New Rochelle. This
is happening. The STAR program in a classic example
of the phase-in of using tax payer’s money and
if I could reduce people’s property taxes by 65%
and find a better way to enhance the districts that
are being short-changed, make them better without hurting
the currently good districts, I think it’s a damn
good idea that should be explored.
HOWARD STURMAN: one more, I find it interesting, I
am going to direct this to Noam first and then I have
a different question for Ron, that most of the elected
officials that have endorsed you have accepted this
same kind of money throughout their campaigns. Do you
feel that you should distance yourself from Andy Spano,
Chuck Schumer, Hillary Clinton?
NOAM BRAMSON: First of all, I dispute the premise of
your question. They have all accepted sources of finding
from much more diversified locations than the Assemblyman.
None of them are…
HOWARD STURMAN: Do you dispute that they have taken
special interest money…
NOAM BRAMSON: No, no, no, excuse me, it was not my
suggestion that we should forego PAC contributions of
any kinds, that we should never accept contributions
from labor unions, or other groups that lobby in the
state capital. I don’t think that that has to
be a hard and fast rule. But I am concerned when a candidate
is so exclusively reliant on those sources of funding.
I was always taught to believe that our representative
is supposed to be this community’s representative
to Albany and not vice versa. I believe that that’s
the case right here…
HOWARD STURMAN: Ron, with regard to special interest
groups, would you consider the possibility of proposing
legislation, if you were to return to the assembly in
January, eliminating special interest group donations
at all?
RON TOCCI: No, I think that would be ridiculous. I
suggested in my answer that those special interests
groups are all of the kinds of special interests that
people are concerned about and certainly care about.
You know, you can connotate that it’s a bad thing
that these special interests groups exist; however,
they represent our not-for-profit and all the other
good organizations that I talked about. My campaign
contributions are an open book. I defy anybody to equate
it to a bad vote…
HOWARD STURMAN: Thank you….start with our closing
remarks, start with Ron.
RON TOCCI: Well, for me I think that public service
has been and always will be the measure of my success.
I am a veteran legislator. I’ve run already, 15
campaigns, actually 17 campaigns. My priorities have
always been public safety, education, the environment,
affordable health care, and they will continue to be
my focus. I’m a fiscal conservative with a reputation
for safeguarding against wasteful spending and unnecessary
taxes. And I have established a position of leadership
and seniority in the State Assembly. I chair the veterans
committee and I have always fought for those who fought
to insure our country’s freedoms. Both Democrat
and Republican state leaders have supported me, because
they know I am first and foremost an independent voice
that speaks only to serve the best interest of this
particular community. I stand against the self-serving
extremists who want to redefine our country’s
basic values. We need to, instead, recommit ourselves
to those core beliefs that were taught to us by our
parents. And I still believe in traditional family values,
that parental guidance and involvement is essential
in helping to build good character for our youth. The
suburban character of our neighborhood should be protected
and intrusive development should not be…I understand
that the economy, when it’s faltering, it’s
not the time for the same old tired failed policies
and more taxes and I know that in these extraordinary
times it is more important than ever to teach respect
for our nation’s flag, because of what it stands
for. I always pledge to people above politics and I’m
looking forward to continuing to work for everybody
in the district.
NOAM BRAMSON: I believe very deeply in public services.
I was always taught growing up that we ought to have
goals, larger than our own self-interest. That we measure
our character, in part, by the dignity of the least
fortunate among us. And that we have a set of values
and beliefs that we have an obligation to work for them
and to fight for them. And I think that this is an extremely
important election because there are big differences
between the candidates in terms of the values we would
act on in government and the energy level that we would
apply to the central challenges that would face our
region and state. I believe very strongly in a woman’s
right to choose. Mr. Tocci is the only representative
in the Westchester assembly delegation who has voted
on restrictions on a woman’s right to choose and
just last week suggested that folks who are fully pro-choice
are, “extremists.” I believe in common sense
gun safety and gun control laws. Mr. Tocci has accepted
more than $1,500.00 from the NRA and voted repeatedly
against a ban on assault weapons and against raising
the minimum age of gun ownership to 21. I believe that
the promise of our state and community can only be realized
when all people are give the opportunity to achieve
their potential and are free from discrimination. The
Assemblyman is the only member of the Westchester delegation
who has voted against critical civil rights laws, voted
against hate crimes laws. I don’t think that that
is at all reflective of what people want in their government
officials. So, I hope that I will have an opportunity
to address the needs, both large and small, of this
community, of this district, and this state. I look
forward to having the opportunity to do so.
Larchmont Gazette greatly appreciates the generosity
of WVOX for allowing the publication of the debate transcript.
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